Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

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Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

PostPosted by Knux » Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:37 pm

I probably won't post the full thing, because it's extremely long and would take forever to read. On top of that, I reckon a lot of things wouldn't get responded to. Here's the first set of issues I wrote. These issues reflect on the community itself AKA the userbase.

I've made this a separate thread from the Community one because I don't want this to get lost in that thread. I want this to have its own discussion.

anyhoo

I'll be going through the number of issues.
Part 1 - The Community
i. Age/Maturity Problem
ii. Bullying
iii. Forum Solution Problem/The Cycle
iv. Priorities
v. Reputation Mod
vi. Rule Problem
a. Joey’s Forum
b. NSMBX
c. Unwritten Rules
vii. Standards In SMBX
viii. Vibes
ix. Why Plans Fail

I. Age/Maturity Problem


The SMBX Community is full of kids. There is simply no escaping the fact there will always be the young ones.

Yet, according to a fair ammount of people, this will eventually change.
So what’s wrong with saying it will? Well, I’ll try my best to explain...

Whether you want to admit it or not, the target audience for the Super Mario series is the younger generation. Sure, there are a lot of people in their late teens-adulthood who still have an interest in the series, but let’s be realistic because kids love the marios.

The humour on the community is very, very child-ish most of the time.
You’ve got people who are seemingly over-sensitive to EVERYTHING, people who try to be funny but just look like a complete tool, and a large, ridicislouly sexually-frustrated group of individuals who act creepy over the IRC. Seriously, most of the time I’m on IRC, people just yap on about sex. There are little children about…are you aware of that?

There’s this whole idea the community holds that we can become a better, more mature community. This is majorly backed up by Joey, who bases this off other Mario forums that do tend to have a more grown-up vibe with them. To be fair on Joey’s part, he has me sort of stumbled there. He believes that these forums are the way they are now because they’ve been around for a long time and have matured well enough.
However, there are a few things that don’t really make sense with that.
Firstly, how long does it have to take before a forum goes from what it is now to what Joey wants it to be? This community is almost 6 years old, and it’s still full of people who act immature since day one.
Secondly, immature people/kids will always join the community.
Joey believes that the reason the community is so immature is because I (apparently) allowed it to happen. There isn’t actually any evidence to back this up, because there were other forums such as NSMBX and Cloud’s Forum that existed along-side mines with an equally active side of the community, some people in which were actually a whole lot worse.

To be honest, the only way we’re really going to know for sure if people will change their tone is down to time.

II. Bullying


Bullying is a very serious issue, and you’d expect a community full of people who HAVE been bullied to recognise this…when it happens in their own community. Obviously, bullying is against the rules on all the SMBX forums, but it isn’t one that is taken very seriously.

I’ve seen people being just flat-out nasty to others for no reason other than simply disliking them. I’m not going to name names, but what I am going to say is there’s a difference between someone being a bit annoying and dislikable to being bullied.
I am sure there are other people who have been bullied here. It’s totally uncalled for guys. I don’t care if you don’t like them for something they’ve done, if what someone has done hasn’t affected you on a personal level, there simply is no excuse for making them feel shitter than they already do.

But what is worst of all about this, is the very little empathy felt by other users. There was a particular issue on IRC where a user was bullied (this is on a public IRC channel btw) to the point of self-harm. Nobody, not even the staff members, said anything about it. People just ignored it. A user was bullied to that level, and a lot of you guys did NOTHING at all.
People also make fun of new users if their english isn’t good. Valtteri and I used to do this all the time. I feel bad for it. You should too, if you have or if you’re still doing it.

DarkMatt is also a bully. There is no denying this. If you want to see examples, just look at pretty much all of his forum posts, you’ll defintely find something in there that will make you question if he’s joking around or being hostile.

(See section V of this part for information on how the Reputation Mod is being used to bully people)

III. Forum Solution Problem/The Cycle


The community tends to go in cycles when it comes to solving their issues. First, someone complains. Second, it gets enough attention to prompt a change. Third, the change happens. Fourth, things are fine for a while. Fifth, someone complains… the cycle repeats.

A great example of this is how we’ve gone from forum-to-forum, believing that this somehow solves the issue before hand, or hiring new staff members and applying the same terrible system as before.

People seem to think that we should replace the current leader with another one. Yet, the new leader always messes it up somehow.

There is this belief that creating a new forum = success. It’s been done since the dawn of the community. An attempt to create a new “friendlier” enviroment than the last (which was meant to be friendlier than the one before that). This almost never works. The reason why forums like mine, Cloud’s and NSMBX’s have done so well for themselves is because they were all exceptional. My forum was, at one point, the only SMBX forum that was available and had a decent number of users anyway (Originally, it was for my SMBX episode The Great Empire. This project was highly anticipated and so it had a reasonable userbase). NSMBX had…NSMBX, which was the “new SMBX” that had a lot of hope put into it. Cloud’s forum? Let’s just say, Cloud has a good set of skills when it comes to bringing in the numbers.

Creating a “SMBX forum for everyone!” is not a solution. It’s a stupid idea. Joey’s forum and NSMBX both provide what you need. If you disagree with how BOTH these forums work, then you should re-consider being a part of the community.

I believe the following quote is relevant to these “solutions"...

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (George Santayana)

IV. Priorities


There are a lot of debates that go on in this community. A LOT. Most of these are really important because it has an effect on the future of the community, and so many people don’t care. Sure, the main focus of SMBX is the editor and the marios and what-not. But for those who consider themselves interested in the community beyond SMBX, should really contribute more to debates regarding the community and how it should be run. We’ve all seen people asking “Huh? What happened?”, being utterly clueless because they haven’t been following the real issues.

Maybe I should re-think my priorities for arguing on a Mario forum, but I care guys!!!

V. Reputation Mod


The reputation mod benefits users, but at the same time, had too many disadvantages to count. I go into more detail in Part 5 - History of Conflicts, Section VI, C about it.

Users tend to up-rep or down-rep people because they simply do not like them. It’s ridiclous. Despite being told not to, people still do it.

I’ve also noticed that if someone makes a bad post, they get downrepped more than enough times. If a user gets downrepped for one post and it’s a good enough reason I understand, but when around 10 people do it, it’s just bullying.

VI. Rule Problem


The rules in the SMBX community were concieved by a troll - redigit.

We’ve adapted to these rules, made additions and removed some. The rules have been a bit problematic over the years, and I’m not going to dwell on the past here, but I am going to focus on the two current forums, Joey’s and NSMBX.

a. Joey’s Forum


RESPECT THE STAFF AND OTHER USERS. The forum staff members are here to do their jobs, so it goes without saying that they deserve respect. All other users deserve respect as well; flaming, insults, and other forms of harassment are not tolerated. However, be aware that a lot of joking and sarcasm happens on the internet and you shouldn't take everything seriously.

Here’s the thing - respect is a two way street. If people like DarkMatt are constantly insulting users and DISRESPECTING them, how are the users going to possibly have respect for the staff?
While it is understandle why staff should be respected, the problem is that the staff are full of shit. One has a really unhealthy (sexual) obsession with a fictional character made for kids. How can you respect someone like that?

It’s also hard to detect sarcasm on the internet. Even harder considering a lot of people here have difficulties in situations with sarcasm (asperger’s, autism, which is fairly common here).

Flaming, insults, and all that, happen ALL THE TIME.

FOLLOW COMMON POSTING HABITS. Don't make meaningless posts. In addition, if you're going to post in a topic that is more than a week old (orbumping), you should make sure the post contributes to the discussion. Try to refrain from double posting, as there is an "Edit" button on all of the posts you make to facilitate the need of adding more content. This is also an English-based forum, so please make your posts readable and structured as such.

What is a useless post? This is not clear enough. The community has never laid down what a useless post actually is. I see it as if someone sees something they like and says “cool!”, is that a useless post because it’s not constructive? Who are you to make that decision? If all I got on my works were un-constructive, but positive comments, I’d be really happy with that. Sure, being detailed is a great thing, but it’s nice to get some small and sweet comments. I’m not denying that there are posts we don’t need such as obviously stupid ones, but I’ve seen users get intro trouble for things like I just mentioned. It’s silly. The post the user made isn’t harming anyone.

What is funny though, is staff actually respond to user’s useless posts…by MAKING ANOTHER USELESS POST.

NO MATURE OR ILLEGAL CONTENT. The SMBX Forums are patronized by people who are under 18, so please respect their situation by not posting any mature (18+) content. Illegal content is also not tolerated for obvious reasons.

Look back at the Maturity problem. People still act this way. Joey has stated that he stops it whenever he’ll see it, which is fair enough, but a lot of staff just don’t bother.

Also, in terms of illegal content, this rule is heavily broken all the time.
(See; Part 4 - Is SMBX Illegal?)

MISCELLANEOUS OTHER RULES: Do not backseat moderate; the mods and the rest of the staff can do their jobs well, that's why they're here. There is a "Report" button on each post for alerting moderators of something you think violates the rules. Please also refrain from making multiple accounts.

It’s not really a bad thing if another user tells someone “hey, you can’t do that”.

Joey actually did say to me once that the reason he won’t allow this rule is so he can maintain control over things. Due to the fact that I don’t have the quotes for this, he will likely go and deny it. Being honest though, if a lot of users are telling eachother what to do, then clearly the staff aren’t doing their job very well.

Joey’s staff (and even some of the users) are exempt from these rules. They have a warning system that isn’t equally balanced out, too. If you want an example of this, find two banned users and ask how many times they were warned before they were banned. There’s a good chance a lot of these will differ.

b. NSMBX


1. While engaging in debates and discussion is fine, we will not tolerate rudeness, excessive profanity, insulting posts, personal attacks (including racial or sexist remarks) or purposeless inflammatory and offensive posts.

While most of this is important to maintain a civil discussion, it also feels very restrictive. Everytime I make a post, I have to heavily edit it so it’s appropriate for the forum. Also, it’s hard not to insult someone you disagree with during an argument. They could also get offended by it, and I know I have been. I’m sure your hearts are in the right place, but I also feel restrictive with my posts. Maybe I’m alone here.

Surprisingly enough, NSMBX wasn’t much different from Joey’s.
These rules need to be re-considered, and at the very least, re-written so they are much clearer.

c. Unwritten Rules


A lot of forums have unwritten rules. While there are things you morally shouldn’t do, forum owners need to take into consideration that if people KNEW that they’d get banned for it, they probably wouldn’t do it. Last year, I posted a picture of Quill (without malicious intent) and I was banned because it was considered leaking of private information and is against the rules. While I shouldn’t have done what I did, there was no rule stating I couldn’t do that. Their response was “it’s an UNWRITTEN RULE”. These shouldn’t exist. Anything that can risk a user being banned SHOULD be added to the forum rules.

I also believe that if a user does something that results in a new rule being implemented, said user shouldn’t be warned or banned for it, as the rule didn’t exist when they did that.

VII. Standards In SMBX


Someone went into greater detail about it before.

The community has this stupid set of standards when it comes to level design. Your level will be greatly ignored if it isn’t crammed with custom graphics. The userbase have an obsession with terrible boss-rush episodes, and mixing designs is looked at as a big no-no because of the infamous “clash”.

Seriously, I’d rather play a level that is fun than worry about it lacking 40,000 custom graphics and blending tilesets from different games. I will admit that it used to be a lot worse, but it’s still stupid. And also, what is with alliteration in every level title?

We also keep repeating the community contest system. C’mon, do something different than another tower.

VIII. Vibes


There’s a really REALLY negative vibe in this community. If you didn’t think so before, I’m sure you realise this now from reading the above.
It makes this place seem unfriendly and makes people turn away. I know this has happened to a lot of people. Good examples include Fyre or reghrhre, who left because this place got too much for them.

IX. Why Plans Fail


SORA and Escape were two organizations that attempted to change the way things were run. In 2013, a merge was attempted and it failed. There is a reason why things like this don’t work out. Poor co-operation.

I am totally at fault with some of the things I’ve been involved with. After the merge happened, I realised where I went wrong and what I said and shouldn’t have said. While I still blame reghrhre for most of what happened, other people got involved and didn’t co-operate with sense.

SORA and Escape failed because the people involved within it tried to destroy the community instead of helping it, and were EXTREMELY rude.

And then, you get people who stay silent because they are either too afraid to speak up or just don’t care about the well-being of everyone else at all.

How can we possibly advance as a community if we all don’t work together instead of working AGAINST eachother?
Every time I try to do something, I do it for the better of the community, not to get back at someone.
People point this out, and it makes me look bad, and it never goes anywhere…*sigh*.
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Re: Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

PostPosted by Zeldamaster12 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:20 pm

Is there going to be a Part II?
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Re: Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

PostPosted by krazykat » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:21 pm

I agree with much of what is said in this thread.
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Re: Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

PostPosted by Knux » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:26 pm

Zeldamaster12 wrote:Is there going to be a Part II?


I've written parts II-IV.
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Re: Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

PostPosted by Zeldamaster12 » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:29 pm

Will they be posted, though?
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Re: Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

PostPosted by AquaAdminShelly » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:33 pm

You know.. You really shouldn't post someones pic in places like this. Did Quill want that? No. Also theres a thing called common sense , but people lack common sense in this community so they think"Hey it's not a rule so you can't ban me for this" Which is wrong.
<m4sterbr0s>But yeah, some people on the forums need to mature more.

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Re: Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

PostPosted by Knux » Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:54 pm

AquaAdminShelly wrote:You know.. You really shouldn't post someones pic in places like this. Did Quill want that? No. Also theres a thing called common sense , but people lack common sense in this community so they think"Hey it's not a rule so you can't ban me for this" Which is wrong.


It still wasn't a rule, and Quill's attitude towards the situation was disgusting.

Will they be posted, though?


I might not be able to post one section because it contains information that could potentially change the community forever. It would change your outlook on a lot of things.
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Re: Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

PostPosted by AquaAdminShelly » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:15 pm

Knux wrote:
AquaAdminShelly wrote:You know.. You really shouldn't post someones pic in places like this. Did Quill want that? No. Also theres a thing called common sense , but people lack common sense in this community so they think"Hey it's not a rule so you can't ban me for this" Which is wrong.


It still wasn't a rule, and Quill's attitude towards the situation was disgusting..


It doesn't have to be one. You didn't use any common sense.
<m4sterbr0s>But yeah, some people on the forums need to mature more.

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Re: Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

PostPosted by Knux » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:15 pm

at least I didn't lie to him for months lol
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Re: Knux's SMBX Analysis (Part I - The Community)

PostPosted by AquaAdminShelly » Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:21 pm

Knux wrote:at least I didn't lie to him for months lol


At least i didn't make a bunch of flamewars between the members, Created a joke forum, Keep removing Valtteri from the Admin Position, Trying to be the Winner in an argument always, Deleting the whole Forum, Deleting my own forum and restart it over and over, Being a dick to others.

Just let u know. reghrhre and me are good now.
<m4sterbr0s>But yeah, some people on the forums need to mature more.

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